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Mikrotik hAP ac3 ... is this junk??

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Sun, 12/10/2023 - 11:30

#1

N6GKJ

N6GKJ's picture

Mikrotik hAP ac3 ... is this junk??

Hello Folks!

Well I bought a hAP ac3 router, after some learning curve on getting it to accept the flash, it is finally operational.

I find however that this unit seems to be deaf.. I am operating on 2.4GHz at channel -2. I get 24 Mbps to the existing gateway which is a GL-AR300M16EXT device and 5.5 Mbps to a second GL-AR300M16EXT device. the two GL-AR devices talk at 72 Mbps between them.

I know there are those who are against the 2.4GHz band, but I am trying to seamlessly integrate the new router into the network. I am most likely doing something wrong in the configuration. Any ideas or comments would be appreciated.

73,

Ron

Sun, 12/10/2023 - 14:27

#2

VE7KOD

Same thing I have been trying

Same thing I have been trying to say. Have two of them and both have the same issues.

definitely something wrong, both AREDN and OPENWRT.

Sun, 12/10/2023 - 15:17

(Reply to #2) #3

N6GKJ

N6GKJ's picture

Mikrotik hAP ac3

My hap will not connect through the WAN port... its useless like this I have tried many things, rebooted the thing to death, takes forever to sync up to other nodes. I am looking for a decent replacement with external antennas.. My network is in the garage and signals are week in the house with devices with built in antennas

Ron

Mon, 12/11/2023 - 17:58

#4

nc8q

The trouble with Tribbles ('ac' devices)

Hi, Ron:
You wrote of 3 separate issues:

difficulty loading AREDN firmware
lower than expected throughput/TxMbps
failure to 'seamlessly integrate' (what ever that means?)

2. I can share some findings on the lower than expected throughput/TxMbps/Modulation Coding Scheme data rates.
I have 3 'ac' devices; SXTsq-5ac, LHGg-5ac, hAP-ac3.
They all transmit at a maximum of 54.0 TxMbps (OFDM 802.11g 64-QAM) at 2.4 GHz
(On channel -2 with the maximum bandwidth of 10 MHz, those TxMbps would be halved).

They all transmit at a maximum of 54.0 TxMbps (OFDM 802.11a 64-QAM) at 5.8 GHz.

They are all capable of Rx at 802.11n/ac up to MCS7.
MCS0 thorugh MCS7 at 20 MHz bandwidth are identical modulation coding.
According to the charts I have found, 'ac' devices at 20 MHz bandwidth are
capable of MCS8 (156.0/173.3 Mbps LGI/SGI).
I have yet to see a MCS8 attempt.

I would need much more detail to comment on 3.
The node I use to connect to the local AREDN network is in an unattached garage.
I use 1 ethernet cable from the house to the garage.
I have plans to go fibre.
I use VLAN switches in the house and in the garage to 'seamlessly integrate'
my home nodes with my garage nodes.
When I do test RF links between the house and the garage,
I use 5GHz devices among RB-SXTsg-5nD, LHG-5nD.
Those devices seem to have enough dBm and dBi to achieve more than 54 TxMbps.
I have never seen 801.11a link speeds with my 'nD' devices.

I hope this helps, Chuck

Fri, 12/15/2023 - 13:29

#5

VE7KOD

Not sure if anyone is

Not sure if anyone is addressing this issue - looks like it's a common issue with OpenWRT and they have been working on it.

Chuck - I appreciate your replies but seriously - you think .4MBps (yes point 4) is acceptable? There is something going on and people are wasting their money purchasing the ac3.

ipq40xx: mikrotik: introduce dynamic BDF loading by robimarko · Pull Request #4679 · openwrt/openwrt (github.com)

Fri, 12/15/2023 - 14:01

#6

K6CCC

K6CCC's picture

For what it's worth, I have

For what it's worth, I have had a hAPac3 since mid February. I had no issues at all flashing it for AREDN and have been very happy with it's use on AREDN. Although it is primarily used for a bunch of tunnels, I have 2 GHz enabled for AREDN and it meshes with a GL-iNet USB-150 and a Mikrotik LHG 2nD-XL. Both of those are intended for take them somewhere and use them so they are just in storage at the house, but powered on so I can confirm that they are operational and do firmware updates. Both are in the same room as the hAPac3 so obviously the paths are VERY short, and very strong signals. Data rates are between 24 and 72 MHz depending on which node and what happens to be in the path. Note that at least with the early firmware for it, operation on the minus channels was HIGHLY problematic. I moved my 2 GHz local net to channel 3 where it works fine.
I also have WiFi A.P. configured on 5 GHz and that works better than the hAP ac lite that it replaced (as expected since the ac lite has no external antennas).

Fri, 12/15/2023 - 21:20

(Reply to #6) #7

VE7KOD

I am very happy to hear that

I am very happy to hear that some people are having success with this device! Not really sure if it's when one of the radios is assigned to be the AP? sounds like you're getting decent rates while connected to the mesh. I'm not in a geographic area where I could use the hAP as such, closest RF node is 14Km away, plus I use the WiFi AP primarily for accessing the mesh from my cell phone. I'm connected via RJ45 to the AC3 and I'm getting decent transfer speeds (about half of what my ISP plan is) 203.0 Mbps download :::: 74.3 Mbps upload (Google speed test) but even that seems very slow for wired.

I too purchased this as an upgrade from the Lite due to needing better WiFi coverage but am limited to 2 Ghz (channel 11) on the AP as the device is a rPi 3b.

Fri, 12/15/2023 - 23:32

#8

VE7KOD

Output from iw list from my

Output from iw list from my isolated (nothing connected other than WAN and 1 LAN to PC) hAP ac3. This still only gets about 54Mbps / .15Mbps on 2Ghz and 95Mbps / .10Mpbs on 5Ghz (yes the upload speeds are point one XX).

root@VE7KOD-hAP-ac3-2:~# iw list
Wiphy phy1
wiphy index: 1
max # scan SSIDs: 16
max scan IEs length: 199 bytes
max # sched scan SSIDs: 0
max # match sets: 0
Retry short limit: 7
Retry long limit: 4
Coverage class: 0 (up to 0m)
Device supports AP-side u-APSD.
Available Antennas: TX 0x3 RX 0x3
Configured Antennas: TX 0x3 RX 0x3
Supported interface modes:
* IBSS
* managed
* AP
* AP/VLAN
* monitor
* mesh point
* P2P-client
* P2P-GO
* P2P-device
Band 2:
Capabilities: 0x19ef
RX LDPC
HT20/HT40
SM Power Save disabled
RX HT20 SGI
RX HT40 SGI
TX STBC
RX STBC 1-stream
Max AMSDU length: 7935 bytes
DSSS/CCK HT40
Maximum RX AMPDU length 65535 bytes (exponent: 0x003)
Minimum RX AMPDU time spacing: 8 usec (0x06)
HT TX/RX MCS rate indexes supported: 0-15
VHT Capabilities (0x339959b2):
Max MPDU length: 11454
Supported Channel Width: neither 160 nor 80+80
RX LDPC
short GI (80 MHz)
TX STBC
SU Beamformer
SU Beamformee
MU Beamformer
MU Beamformee
RX antenna pattern consistency
TX antenna pattern consistency
VHT RX MCS set:
1 streams: MCS 0-9
2 streams: MCS 0-9
3 streams: not supported
4 streams: not supported
5 streams: not supported
6 streams: not supported
7 streams: not supported
8 streams: not supported
VHT RX highest supported: 0 Mbps
VHT TX MCS set:
1 streams: MCS 0-9
2 streams: MCS 0-9
3 streams: not supported
4 streams: not supported
5 streams: not supported
6 streams: not supported
7 streams: not supported
8 streams: not supported
VHT TX highest supported: 0 Mbps
VHT extended NSS: not supported
Frequencies:
* 5180 MHz [36] (30.0 dBm)
* 5200 MHz [40] (30.0 dBm)
* 5220 MHz [44] (30.0 dBm)
* 5240 MHz [48] (30.0 dBm)
* 5260 MHz [52] (30.0 dBm)
* 5280 MHz [56] (30.0 dBm)
* 5300 MHz [60] (30.0 dBm)
* 5320 MHz [64] (30.0 dBm)
* 5500 MHz [100] (30.0 dBm)
* 5520 MHz [104] (30.0 dBm)
* 5540 MHz [108] (30.0 dBm)
* 5560 MHz [112] (30.0 dBm)
* 5580 MHz [116] (30.0 dBm)
* 5600 MHz [120] (30.0 dBm)
* 5620 MHz [124] (30.0 dBm)
* 5640 MHz [128] (30.0 dBm)
* 5655 MHz [131] (30.0 dBm)
* 5660 MHz [132] (30.0 dBm)
* 5665 MHz [133] (30.0 dBm)
* 5670 MHz [134] (30.0 dBm)
* 5675 MHz [135] (30.0 dBm)
* 5680 MHz [136] (30.0 dBm)
* 5685 MHz [137] (30.0 dBm)
* 5690 MHz [138] (30.0 dBm)
* 5695 MHz [139] (30.0 dBm)
* 5700 MHz [140] (30.0 dBm)
* 5705 MHz [141] (30.0 dBm)
* 5710 MHz [142] (30.0 dBm)
* 5715 MHz [143] (30.0 dBm)
* 5720 MHz [144] (30.0 dBm)
* 5725 MHz [145] (30.0 dBm)
* 5730 MHz [146] (30.0 dBm)
* 5735 MHz [147] (30.0 dBm)
* 5740 MHz [148] (30.0 dBm)
* 5745 MHz [149] (30.0 dBm)
* 5750 MHz [150] (30.0 dBm)
* 5755 MHz [151] (30.0 dBm)
* 5760 MHz [152] (30.0 dBm)
* 5765 MHz [153] (30.0 dBm)
* 5770 MHz [154] (30.0 dBm)
* 5775 MHz [155] (30.0 dBm)
* 5780 MHz [156] (30.0 dBm)
* 5785 MHz [157] (30.0 dBm)
* 5790 MHz [158] (30.0 dBm)
* 5795 MHz [159] (30.0 dBm)
* 5800 MHz [160] (30.0 dBm)
* 5805 MHz [161] (30.0 dBm)
* 5810 MHz [162] (30.0 dBm)
* 5815 MHz [163] (30.0 dBm)
* 5820 MHz [164] (30.0 dBm)
* 5825 MHz [165] (30.0 dBm)
* 5830 MHz [166] (30.0 dBm)
* 5835 MHz [167] (30.0 dBm)
* 5840 MHz [168] (30.0 dBm)
* 5845 MHz [169] (30.0 dBm)
* 5850 MHz [170] (30.0 dBm)
* 5855 MHz [171] (30.0 dBm)
* 5860 MHz [172] (30.0 dBm)
* 5865 MHz [173] (30.0 dBm)
* 5870 MHz [174] (30.0 dBm)
* 5875 MHz [175] (30.0 dBm)
* 5880 MHz [176] (30.0 dBm)
* 5885 MHz [177] (30.0 dBm)
* 5890 MHz [178] (30.0 dBm)
* 5895 MHz [179] (30.0 dBm)
* 5900 MHz [180] (30.0 dBm)
* 5905 MHz [181] (30.0 dBm)
* 5910 MHz [182] (30.0 dBm)
* 5915 MHz [183] (30.0 dBm)
* 5920 MHz [184] (30.0 dBm)
valid interface combinations:
* #{ managed } <= 16, #{ AP, mesh point } <= 16, #{ IBSS } <= 1 ,
total <= 16, #channels <= 1, STA/AP BI must match, radar dete ct widths: { 20 MHz (no HT), 20 MHz, 40 MHz, 80 MHz, 80+80 MHz, 160 MHz }

HT Capability overrides:
* MCS: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
* maximum A-MSDU length
* supported channel width
* short GI for 40 MHz
* max A-MPDU length exponent
* min MPDU start spacing
max # scan plans: 1
max scan plan interval: -1
max scan plan iterations: 0
Maximum associated stations in AP mode: 32
Supported extended features:
* [ VHT_IBSS ]: VHT-IBSS
* [ RRM ]: RRM
* [ SET_SCAN_DWELL ]: scan dwell setting
* [ FILS_STA ]: STA FILS (Fast Initial Link Setup)
* [ CQM_RSSI_LIST ]: multiple CQM_RSSI_THOLD records
* [ CONTROL_PORT_OVER_NL80211 ]: control port over nl80211
* [ TXQS ]: FQ-CoDel-enabled intermediate TXQs
* [ AIRTIME_FAIRNESS ]: airtime fairness scheduling
* [ AQL ]: Airtime Queue Limits (AQL)
* [ CONTROL_PORT_NO_PREAUTH ]: disable pre-auth over nl80211 con trol port support
* [ DEL_IBSS_STA ]: deletion of IBSS station support
* [ SCAN_FREQ_KHZ ]: scan on kHz frequency support
* [ CONTROL_PORT_OVER_NL80211_TX_STATUS ]: tx status for nl80211 control port support
Wiphy phy0
wiphy index: 0
max # scan SSIDs: 16
max scan IEs length: 195 bytes
max # sched scan SSIDs: 0
max # match sets: 0
Retry short limit: 7
Retry long limit: 4
Coverage class: 0 (up to 0m)
Device supports AP-side u-APSD.
Available Antennas: TX 0x3 RX 0x3
Configured Antennas: TX 0x3 RX 0x3
Supported interface modes:
* IBSS
* managed
* AP
* AP/VLAN
* monitor
* mesh point
* P2P-client
* P2P-GO
* P2P-device
Band 1:
Capabilities: 0x19ef
RX LDPC
HT20/HT40
SM Power Save disabled
RX HT20 SGI
RX HT40 SGI
TX STBC
RX STBC 1-stream
Max AMSDU length: 7935 bytes
DSSS/CCK HT40
Maximum RX AMPDU length 65535 bytes (exponent: 0x003)
Minimum RX AMPDU time spacing: 8 usec (0x06)
HT TX/RX MCS rate indexes supported: 0-15
VHT Capabilities (0x339959b2):
Max MPDU length: 11454
Supported Channel Width: neither 160 nor 80+80
RX LDPC
short GI (80 MHz)
TX STBC
SU Beamformer
SU Beamformee
MU Beamformer
MU Beamformee
RX antenna pattern consistency
TX antenna pattern consistency
VHT RX MCS set:
1 streams: MCS 0-9
2 streams: MCS 0-9
3 streams: not supported
4 streams: not supported
5 streams: not supported
6 streams: not supported
7 streams: not supported
8 streams: not supported
VHT RX highest supported: 0 Mbps
VHT TX MCS set:
1 streams: MCS 0-9
2 streams: MCS 0-9
3 streams: not supported
4 streams: not supported
5 streams: not supported
6 streams: not supported
7 streams: not supported
8 streams: not supported
VHT TX highest supported: 0 Mbps
VHT extended NSS: not supported
Frequencies:
* 2387 MHz [-4] (30.0 dBm)
* 2392 MHz [-3] (30.0 dBm)
* 2397 MHz [-2] (30.0 dBm)
* 2402 MHz [-1] (30.0 dBm)
* 2412 MHz [1] (30.0 dBm)
* 2417 MHz [2] (30.0 dBm)
* 2422 MHz [3] (30.0 dBm)
* 2427 MHz [4] (30.0 dBm)
* 2432 MHz [5] (30.0 dBm)
* 2437 MHz [6] (30.0 dBm)
* 2442 MHz [7] (30.0 dBm)
* 2447 MHz [8] (30.0 dBm)
* 2452 MHz [9] (30.0 dBm)
* 2457 MHz [10] (30.0 dBm)
* 2462 MHz [11] (30.0 dBm)
* 2467 MHz [12] (30.0 dBm)
* 2472 MHz [13] (30.0 dBm)
* 2484 MHz [14] (30.0 dBm)
valid interface combinations:
* #{ managed } <= 16, #{ AP, mesh point } <= 16, #{ IBSS } <= 1 ,
total <= 16, #channels <= 1, STA/AP BI must match, radar dete ct widths: { 20 MHz (no HT), 20 MHz, 40 MHz, 80 MHz, 80+80 MHz, 160 MHz }

HT Capability overrides:
* MCS: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
* maximum A-MSDU length
* supported channel width
* short GI for 40 MHz
* max A-MPDU length exponent
* min MPDU start spacing
max # scan plans: 1
max scan plan interval: -1
max scan plan iterations: 0
Maximum associated stations in AP mode: 32
Supported extended features:
* [ VHT_IBSS ]: VHT-IBSS
* [ RRM ]: RRM
* [ SET_SCAN_DWELL ]: scan dwell setting
* [ FILS_STA ]: STA FILS (Fast Initial Link Setup)
* [ CQM_RSSI_LIST ]: multiple CQM_RSSI_THOLD records
* [ CONTROL_PORT_OVER_NL80211 ]: control port over nl80211
* [ TXQS ]: FQ-CoDel-enabled intermediate TXQs
* [ AIRTIME_FAIRNESS ]: airtime fairness scheduling
* [ AQL ]: Airtime Queue Limits (AQL)
* [ CONTROL_PORT_NO_PREAUTH ]: disable pre-auth over nl80211 con trol port support
* [ DEL_IBSS_STA ]: deletion of IBSS station support
* [ SCAN_FREQ_KHZ ]: scan on kHz frequency support
* [ CONTROL_PORT_OVER_NL80211_TX_STATUS ]: tx status for nl80211 control port support

Sat, 12/16/2023 - 02:06

#9

K6CCC

K6CCC's picture

What part of your test is RF?

Output from iw list from my isolated (nothing connected other than WAN and 1 LAN to PC) hAP ac3. This still only gets about 54Mbps / .15Mbps on 2Ghz and 95Mbps / .10Mpbs on 5Ghz (yes the upload speeds are point one XX).

Most of that listing is meaningless to me. Likely means something to some people. However, you said that the only thing connected was a WAN and 1 PC on a LAN port. So where is RF involved in that? Am I missing something?

Mon, 12/18/2023 - 13:39

(Reply to #9) #10

VE7KOD

That information is what is

That information is what is requested in a variety of GitHub OpenWRT and forum pages.

The RF is from the WiFi access point, I STOPPED connecting to the ac3 via the AP due to this issue. I do not use the ac3 as a mesh access point, same with my previous ac lite. Both were used solely as AP points.
Before anyone suggests it's my end point device or home router.

Sat, 12/16/2023 - 08:17

#11

nc8q

iw wlan0 station dump

Hi, Jesse:
Whichever radio is configured as your AREDN link will be wlan0, I think.
I would like to see the output of
iw wlan0 station dump
All:
I have run that command and sent the output to a text file on the node:
iw-wlan-station-dimp.txt
and created a link to the file as a web browser accessible link:
http://nc8q-hap1.local.mesh/iw-wlan0-station-dump.txt
I did this on 7 of my 5GHz radio device's ports.
None of the 802.11ac devices get more than 54 TxMbps and only modulate at 802.11a speeds. Never at 802.11ac or 802.11n speeds. :-(
Some of my 802.11n only devices get higher TxMbps.
73, Chuck

Image Attachments:

Mon, 12/18/2023 - 13:49

(Reply to #11) #12

VE7KOD

Thank you again for your help

Thank you again for your help Chuck, it is appreciated.

I normally don't have the mesh RF enabled on the ac3 as I don't have any nodes close enough to connect to other than my LBE and PBE that are RF to mountain top sites. wlan0 set to 5Ghz and the WiFi AP is set to 2Ghz.

I know you didn't ask for this but:
iw wlan1 station dump doesn't output anything (both radios are enabled)

Here is the output of iw wlan0 station dump

root@VE7KOD-hAP-ac3:~# iw wlan0 station dump
Station b8:27:eb:79:31:f9 (on wlan0)
inactive time: 140 ms
rx bytes: 424973
rx packets: 1000
tx bytes: 137473
tx packets: 814
tx retries: 0
tx failed: 0
rx drop misc: 1
signal: -60 [-63, -62, -92, -92] dBm
signal avg: -60 [-63, -62, -92, -92] dBm
tx bitrate: 58.5 MBit/s MCS 6
tx duration: 38717 us
rx bitrate: 65.0 MBit/s MCS 6 short GI
rx duration: 0 us
airtime weight: 256
authorized: yes
authenticated: yes
associated: yes
preamble: short
WMM/WME: yes
MFP: no
TDLS peer: no
DTIM period: 2
beacon interval:100
short preamble: yes
short slot time:yes
connected time: 84 seconds
associated at [boottime]: 38.704s
associated at: 1702924913488 ms
current time: 1702924997639 ms

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