Wilson Vs Verdugo

20 posts / 0 new

Mon, 01/23/2023 - 11:50

K6ZRA

Wilson Vs Verdugo

Greetings, I just signed up. Brand new to AREDN. No equipment yet. Just reading and learning at the moment,
but I'm thinking about picking up a Mikrotik RBLHG-5nD, since the price is reasonable and I don't want to commit a bunch of money at the moment.

I'm in Studio City. I have a clear view of both Mt. Wilson and Verdugo peak.
Verdugo is closer by several miles. Are there different services available on each?
Should I just pick based on distance and signal strength?
Thanks

Mon, 01/23/2023 - 14:03

w6bi

Path

Ezra, in checking your LOS to both sites, Verdugo is marginal. I'd try Wilson first.
Note - they both have their problems at the moment. The Verdugo switch is currently not forwarding VLAN2, so none of the 4 nodes at that site are talking to each other. We hope to fix that this weekend.

Orv W6BI

Mon, 01/23/2023 - 15:03

(Reply to #2) #3

K6ZRA

Path

Thanks for that information, I can see both hills clearly from my roof, but maybe I'm not looking at the correct location for Verdugo.
I would prefer to try for the one that has the fewest issues.

I will aim for Wilson when I decide on my equipment. Do you think the Mikrotik RBLHG-5nD is a good choice for this location? I see both the US and Intl. version available for $60, which is about my price range at the moment. Though, no sense spending on something that will not work properly.

Thanks
-Ezra

Mon, 01/23/2023 - 20:17

w6bi

Wilson, etc.

Wilson is functional to the best of my knowledge. It's hampered some by the high RF environment it lives in. The Mikrotik dishes are good devices. I recommend you by the one with the highest gain, considering Wilson's noise level
And you don't have to worry about US vs. International; those are software channel limitations that vanish when you overwrite the native software with the AREDN image.

73
Orv W6BI

Tue, 01/24/2023 - 00:27

K6CCC

Yes, the Mikrotik radios work

Yes, the Mikrotik radios work just fine. I would agree with Orv in going with the larger version - RB-LHG-5HPnD-XL. Particularly true if you have to shoot to Wilson. The noise floor up there is a killer.

Tue, 01/24/2023 - 01:04

K6ZRA

Thanks so much for the

Thanks so much for the information.

Unfortunately the RB-LHG-5HPnD-XL exceeds my budget. I'm looking to get involved for a total of $100. Looks like this isn't currently possible. I think I have a POE injector and Cat 6 cable and connectors laying around. The one place I found that has the XL for under $100 shipped is sold out. I'll keep looking though. If anyone has some hardware recommendations that are less expensive and will perform well with Wilson's heavy RF environment, I'd be grateful for the info.

Thanks
-Ezra

Tue, 01/24/2023 - 06:40

(Reply to #6) #7

nc8q

I'm looking to get involved for a total of $100.

Hi, Ezra:
But $100.31 is too much? !
Streakwave:

MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL-US 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 US Mfg#: RBLHG-5HPnD-XL-US
MSRP $149.00 Your Price $100.31

On Order: 4

MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW Mfg#: RBLHG-5HPnD-XL
MSRP $99.00 Your Price $99.00

73, Chuck

Tue, 01/24/2023 - 17:30

(Reply to #7) #8

K6ZRA

Hi Chuck, those prices are

Hi Chuck, those prices are acceptable, do you have associated links?

Tue, 01/24/2023 - 18:00

(Reply to #8) #9

K6ZRA

Ahh streakwave.com

Ahh streakwave.com

I looked at their site and called them. Both versions are actually out of stock there but once they add in $25 shipping it's the same price as Amazon who claims they have 12 available. But the +tax shipped price is still more than I want to pay at the moment.

Thanks so much for the info

-Ezra

Tue, 01/24/2023 - 19:34

(Reply to #9) #10

AJ6GZ

PoE

Note that they all come with a PoE injector and power supply.

Tue, 01/24/2023 - 03:11

#11

k1ky

How about this one?

Here is a LHG5HP $79 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075Q16P4X?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba...

Tue, 01/24/2023 - 17:45

(Reply to #11) #12

K6ZRA

Thanks Thomas, that is the

Thanks Thomas, that is the LHG5HP I was asking about earlier in the thread. If I understand correctly James recommended against it and instead suggested the XL because of the RF environment on Mt. Wilson, the XL seems to cost $130+tax .

Here is an amazon link to the XL
https://a.co/d/3ih8N65

There is a place called Baltic Networks, who I have never heard of which lists the XL for $75 with free shipping, but it is out of stock. I aksed to be notified when it is back in stock.

Thanks
-Ezra

Wed, 01/25/2023 - 15:09

#13

w6bi

5 GHz Nodes

The Ubiquiti Litebeam M5 ac is $67 at Amazon. It has 23 dBi gain and is supported in the nightly builds.

Important: don't order the slightly cheaper Ubiquiti Litebeam M5. It's not a MIMO device and is no longer recommend by AREDN for new deployments.

Orv W6BI

Wed, 01/25/2023 - 15:24

(Reply to #13) #14

K6ZRA

Thanks for that info Orv,

Thanks for that info Orv,

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and all the information I've been getting here.

There's something I'm confused about, I thought I understood you guys to be saying that a 24db device such as the Mikrotik RBLHG-5nD would not be a good choice for my location due to Wilson's RF environment. That was why the Mikrotik XL with 27db was recommended. Do I have that wrong? Is there something about the Ubiquiti that would make it a better choice than either Mikrotik at only 23db? I suppose I could just try these and return them if they don't work?

Thanks
-Ezra

Thu, 01/26/2023 - 14:41

(Reply to #14) #15

nc8q

That was why the Mikrotik XL with 27db was recommended.

Hi, Ezra:
I have in use 4 RBLHG-HP5-XLs. (US or INTL is fine).
You omitted the last letter of the 3 letter acronyms; dBm and dBi.
dBm is power and dBi is antenna gain.
The LHG-HP5-XL has 27 dBi and 28 dBm for a total gain of 55.
The smaller yet still higher power LHG-HP5 has a total gain of 52.5.
A pair of smaller LHG-HP5s would have 5 dB less signal than a pair of LHG-HP5-XLs.
Our local network has a mix of LHGs and SXTs.
Our long links (3) 16, 17, and 21 kms are LHG-HP5-XLs.
Our shorter links are a mix of LHGs and SXTs. Some are LHG<>SXT.
Have you done a site study and estimated the path loss?
Without a clue of what your path loss is, I have no recommendation.

73, Chuck

Thu, 01/26/2023 - 15:15

(Reply to #15) #16

K6ZRA

Sorry, I forgot to add the "i

Sorry, I forgot to add the "i" but I think I was referring to the advertised number on those devices which appears to be dBi. Sorry if I confused anyone.
According to the Ubiquiti ISP designer, this is what I get. I'm not sure if I'm pointed at the exact correct point on Mt. Wilson though.

Thu, 01/26/2023 - 13:47

#17

w6bi

Affordability/availability

The extra 3 dB would certainly help. I suggested the Litebeam as a more affordable option, as that seemed to be a primary concern of yours.

73
Orv W6BI

Thu, 01/26/2023 - 15:24

(Reply to #17) #18

K6ZRA

Thanks Orv,

Thanks Orv,

I think my expectations of cost and performance were unrealistic based on several YouTube videos I watched, which brought me here. I'm glad I asked these questions. I will have to take a look at my other hobbies, all of which have frequent $100+ expenditures and prioritize what value I will receive from each one. I will then decide to revise my AREDN budget or miss out.

I do appreciate the time and attention you have given to this.

Thanks
-Ezra

Fri, 01/27/2023 - 14:50

#19

K6ZRA

Guess I just had to wait

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for all the help and suggestions.
I just got an email from the online shop Baltic Networks, saying the RBLHG-5HPnD-XL is in stock for $75 with free shipping, so I ordered one.

Hopefully I can figure out how to flash it and aim it now.

Thanks again
-Ezra

Fri, 01/27/2023 - 15:13

#20

K6CCC

Baltic Networks are great people.

FYI, Baltic Networks are great people to work with. I have bought a bunch of Mikrotik networking devices from them. Great service from them.

Jim

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