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IERP and 5.8Ghz band

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ng1p
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IERP and 5.8Ghz band


I was starting to put a presentation together on AREDN for the Maine State ARRL Convention and noticed that IERP listed and this could be a major factor on our planning for Point to Point sites in the 5.8Ghz range.

I don't know if I missed this in the past or did something change around what we as Hams can run for EIRP. Looking at the 5.8 Ghz band some channels are limited to just 1W and others have a max of 200W (all IERP). Using the standard equipment we would be limited to 53dBm EIRP on channels above 145? So most equipment will produce 27dBm and the max antenna gain we could use would be limited to 26dBm. I was looking to use Ubiquiti Rocketdish at 30dBm. Based on what I'm seeing that is not longer legal? In the past we had the upper portion on the 5.8Ghz band and was not restricted. Any thoughts? I'm I reading this right? 

Thank you

Frequencies and Channels — AREDN Documentation 3.22.1.0 documentation (arednmesh.readthedocs.io)

nc8q
nc8q's picture
RF safety - site assessment
"I don't know if I missed this in the past or did something change around what we as Hams can run for EIRP.
Looking at the 5.8 Ghz band some channels are limited to just 1W and others have a max of 200W (all IERP)."

Some months back I did a RF 'site assessment' using a reference at arrl.org.
I recall that there were different rules for publicly accessible .vs. restricted access.
i.e.
I used a formula on my flag pole in the front yard on HF and it is publicly accessible...21 feet from the road.
I used a formula on my RB-LHG-HP5-XL and found that human bodies should not be closer than 28 inches in front of the dish.
Since that device is 10 feet above the roof and roof access is restricted, I counted it as NOT publicly accessible.

In summary, none of my devices require signage to warn the public.

I hope this helps,
Chuck


 
ng1p
ng1p's picture
Thanks for the reply. It was
Thanks for the reply. It was not the RF Exposure that I was wondering about it was around what is the legal limit. So for example we all know 1500 watts out the back of your radio on say the HF bands is the legal limit. The new frequency guide that is posted in the AREDN doc now lists IERP (Effective Radiated Power) as measured coming out of the antenna. I would say if its true lots of folks are not legal. Just want to understand this for sure.

Thank you
nc8q
nc8q's picture
if it is true lots of folks are not legal.

I looked here
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-97/subpart-D/section-97.313
but found nothing about power limits on the 5 cm band.

Please post the URL of the page that describes the power limits on 5650-5925 MHz or other frequencies of AREDN capable devices.

73,
Chuck
 

ng1p
ng1p's picture
This is the link to the AREDN

This is the link to the AREDN doc that has the picture . I have also attached a picture of it to this message.
Frequencies and Channels — AREDN Documentation 3.22.1.0 documentation (arednmesh.readthedocs.io)
 
Image Attachments: 
ng1p
ng1p's picture
I also took a look a 97.301,
I also took a look a 97.301, 97.303, and the power standard 97.313 and don't see any limits. I wonder if the AREDN latest document is just reflecting the power limits for non-licensed users? Can any one verify this? If that is the case it would be good to update and remove the IERP verbiage from the doc.

thank you
nc8q
nc8q's picture
Based on what I'm seeing that is not longer legal?
" Based on what I'm seeing that is not longer legal? "

Sorry. I am not seeing a relationship between that image and what is 'legal' Amateur Radio Service power limits.

73,
Chuck

 
ng1p
ng1p's picture
What im talking about is the
What im talking about is the verbiage in the picture for the 5.8ghz band (shown under the channels)it has the IERP levels listed. Again reading part 97 I think it doesn't apply to Hams and may lead to confusion.

thank you
nc8q
nc8q's picture
Thanks, I understand now.
I think those power limits are for WISPs and unlicensed.
It may be helpful to know the EIRP of other users of these shared channels.
I have been using channels 131-145 with great success.
Now knowing that unlicensed is limited to 1 watt EIRP explains much.

73,
Chuck

 
ng1p
ng1p's picture
Interesting point as I'm
Interesting point as I'm using channel 144. So yes in Maine the lower channels might be a better choice.

73 Bill NG1P
nc8q
nc8q's picture
Choosing a channel

Hi, Bill:
Our area has many 5.8 GHz links.
When adding a new link or revisiting a link pair, I do a Wi-Fi Scan at 20 MHz at each end.
Then start with the channel with the weakest signals.
I have tested links pairs across the band and sometimes find that the quietest channel does not have best results. :-|
Locally, we are using these 5 GHz channels:
132, 133, 140, 145, 149, 165, 169, 173, 177, 182, 183, 184 of various bandwidths.
All of those links are directional links.
Some channels are shared as the paired link cannot detect the other paired link. (ch 165 and 177)
3s, Chuck

 

AE6XE
AE6XE's picture
5GHz power limits
Generally, the rule that applies is the "minimum necessary" rule of 97.313a. However there is one situation where AREDN devices have a limit. This is related to backward compatabilty with old devices, like bbhn linksys. These devices are 802.11b, which is a Spread Spectum (SS) modulations. 97.313j limits this to xmitter power of 10W. The commercial devices we use physically can not transmit this power, thus not an issue to be concerned with unless adding an external PA. This SS modulation is not used between newer devices both using 802.11n -- not SS, rather a bunch of carrier waves with combinations of PSK and AM modulations. Refer to the 802.11n MCS rate tables for specific modulations used. Thus, still the 1.5kW limit.

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